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	<title>Comments on: The Volkswagen Problem</title>
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	<link>http://vintageposterblog.com/2010/07/27/the-volkswagen-problem/</link>
	<description>British post war posters and graphics.  So that you don&#039;t have to.</description>
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		<title>By: Morning Linkage (Jul 30)</title>
		<link>http://vintageposterblog.com/2010/07/27/the-volkswagen-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-407</link>
		<dc:creator>Morning Linkage (Jul 30)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vintageposterblog.com/?p=2103#comment-407</guid>
		<description>[...] really lovely posters from the Empire Mar­ket­ing Board (1936–1933) and a pon­der­ing of the trou­bling images in these efforts to mar­ket the prod­ucts of the British empire to the sub­jects of the British [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] really lovely posters from the Empire Mar­ket­ing Board (1936–1933) and a pon­der­ing of the trou­bling images in these efforts to mar­ket the prod­ucts of the British empire to the sub­jects of the British [...]</p>
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		<title>By: crownfolio</title>
		<link>http://vintageposterblog.com/2010/07/27/the-volkswagen-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-404</link>
		<dc:creator>crownfolio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vintageposterblog.com/?p=2103#comment-404</guid>
		<description>It is a minefield, isn&#039;t it.  I think that&#039;s particularly so when you&#039;re posting things on the internet, as with your German railway guides, when people can then take those images and do what they will with them.  At least in a museum, objects can&#039;t be removed from the context you give them.

And yes - I have a copy of that book on my desk right now, although I did have to buy it myself!  He seems less worried about the collection than Manchester, and a bit more able to take it as a product of the times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a minefield, isn&#8217;t it.  I think that&#8217;s particularly so when you&#8217;re posting things on the internet, as with your German railway guides, when people can then take those images and do what they will with them.  At least in a museum, objects can&#8217;t be removed from the context you give them.</p>
<p>And yes &#8211; I have a copy of that book on my desk right now, although I did have to buy it myself!  He seems less worried about the collection than Manchester, and a bit more able to take it as a product of the times.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeyA</title>
		<link>http://vintageposterblog.com/2010/07/27/the-volkswagen-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-401</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeyA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vintageposterblog.com/?p=2103#comment-401</guid>
		<description>The EMB can, and often does, raise some interesting issues - when I worked in the museum sector we often had to wrestle with how to interpret objects and items that now have very different connotations without resorting to outright censorship. I recall the uproar we had not long ago about a charming Mabel Lucie Atwell poster for the District line that we were advised not to show as it contained a child with a doll that now has serious contemporary ramifications - were we right to pull it? Likewise I felt slightly ill at ease posting some 1930s German railway guides, some of whom were illustrated by artists who had serious Nazi connections. Anyhow, re; EMB - don&#039;t forget the 1986 Stephen Constantine &quot;Buy &amp; Build&quot; book that PRO/HMSO issued and that I was given as my christmas present from my Ma and Pa that year!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The EMB can, and often does, raise some interesting issues &#8211; when I worked in the museum sector we often had to wrestle with how to interpret objects and items that now have very different connotations without resorting to outright censorship. I recall the uproar we had not long ago about a charming Mabel Lucie Atwell poster for the District line that we were advised not to show as it contained a child with a doll that now has serious contemporary ramifications &#8211; were we right to pull it? Likewise I felt slightly ill at ease posting some 1930s German railway guides, some of whom were illustrated by artists who had serious Nazi connections. Anyhow, re; EMB &#8211; don&#8217;t forget the 1986 Stephen Constantine &#8220;Buy &amp; Build&#8221; book that PRO/HMSO issued and that I was given as my christmas present from my Ma and Pa that year!</p>
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		<title>By: crownfolio</title>
		<link>http://vintageposterblog.com/2010/07/27/the-volkswagen-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-390</link>
		<dc:creator>crownfolio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vintageposterblog.com/?p=2103#comment-390</guid>
		<description>Thanks both of you for those - I am still very much in the process of working out what I think, so it&#039;s really good to have some other opinions.

Yes, I&#039;d forgotten Eric Gill in this rather less than illustrious pantheon - and the BBC story is a really interesting review of the area, albeit one that, like me, ends up throwing up its arms and not knowing the answer.  

I&#039;d like to say that there&#039;s a distinction between art and design, in that design can often have a purpose or intention to persuade.  But even that argument falls apart because some art may have a dubious moral motive as well.  The BBC article draws the distinction between Gill&#039;s Stations of the Cross and his nude drawings of his daughter.  Equally, some design has no intention behind it either - it would seem absurd if the BBC stopped using Gill Sans because of what Eric got up to.

And I do agree that Manchester Art Gallery in particular has to see the collection as a whole, not least because they have a very difficult relation to it.  Arguing the case of the EMB collection in a publicly funded gallery in a multicultural city would require more political nous than I  could ever muster up.

But context is an odd and flexible thing, isn&#039;t it.  We&#039;ve managed to detatch the VW Beetle entirely from its original context; I think if Fred Taylor&#039;s Market Day came up at auction, it would probably manage the same trick too.  But the African Transport pair just cannot exist outside of the circumstances in which they were created.

I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s cleared anything up though...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks both of you for those &#8211; I am still very much in the process of working out what I think, so it&#8217;s really good to have some other opinions.</p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;d forgotten Eric Gill in this rather less than illustrious pantheon &#8211; and the BBC story is a really interesting review of the area, albeit one that, like me, ends up throwing up its arms and not knowing the answer.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to say that there&#8217;s a distinction between art and design, in that design can often have a purpose or intention to persuade.  But even that argument falls apart because some art may have a dubious moral motive as well.  The BBC article draws the distinction between Gill&#8217;s Stations of the Cross and his nude drawings of his daughter.  Equally, some design has no intention behind it either &#8211; it would seem absurd if the BBC stopped using Gill Sans because of what Eric got up to.</p>
<p>And I do agree that Manchester Art Gallery in particular has to see the collection as a whole, not least because they have a very difficult relation to it.  Arguing the case of the EMB collection in a publicly funded gallery in a multicultural city would require more political nous than I  could ever muster up.</p>
<p>But context is an odd and flexible thing, isn&#8217;t it.  We&#8217;ve managed to detatch the VW Beetle entirely from its original context; I think if Fred Taylor&#8217;s Market Day came up at auction, it would probably manage the same trick too.  But the African Transport pair just cannot exist outside of the circumstances in which they were created.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s cleared anything up though&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Shelf Appeal</title>
		<link>http://vintageposterblog.com/2010/07/27/the-volkswagen-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-389</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelf Appeal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vintageposterblog.com/?p=2103#comment-389</guid>
		<description>Funnily enough this reminds me of music.  When you find out a musician you like has political views you don&#039;t, it can be a struggle to still enjoy their music as much. Us design historians un-pick things until we find their provenance and sometimes have to then regret the unabashed, innocent joy we&#039;d initially felt about them.  But the stories are still fascinating. I think institutions have to see posters like these as a whole - a whole collection. But once they are let loose in the market, that context will have a knock-on effect on both their assigned aesthetic and fiscal values. It&#039;s a hard one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funnily enough this reminds me of music.  When you find out a musician you like has political views you don&#8217;t, it can be a struggle to still enjoy their music as much. Us design historians un-pick things until we find their provenance and sometimes have to then regret the unabashed, innocent joy we&#8217;d initially felt about them.  But the stories are still fascinating. I think institutions have to see posters like these as a whole &#8211; a whole collection. But once they are let loose in the market, that context will have a knock-on effect on both their assigned aesthetic and fiscal values. It&#8217;s a hard one.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://vintageposterblog.com/2010/07/27/the-volkswagen-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-388</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vintageposterblog.com/?p=2103#comment-388</guid>
		<description>See also Wagner, Eric Gill, and &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6979731.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this more contemporary story&lt;/a&gt;.

Artists interpret the world and life through their art.  Sometimes that art can echo other interpretations, whether or not this was the artist&#039;s intention.  For me, the best response to these posters is not to ignore their historic context, but to both recognise that and then see beyond it to their intrinsic artistic value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See also Wagner, Eric Gill, and <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6979731.stm" rel="nofollow">this more contemporary story</a>.</p>
<p>Artists interpret the world and life through their art.  Sometimes that art can echo other interpretations, whether or not this was the artist&#8217;s intention.  For me, the best response to these posters is not to ignore their historic context, but to both recognise that and then see beyond it to their intrinsic artistic value.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention The Volkswagen Problem &#124; Quad Royal -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://vintageposterblog.com/2010/07/27/the-volkswagen-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-387</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention The Volkswagen Problem &#124; Quad Royal -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vintageposterblog.com/?p=2103#comment-387</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by BPMA, Crownfolio. Crownfolio said: The Empire Marketing board - lovely posters but a difficult question. And Volkswagens. http://bit.ly/9i2Akn [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by BPMA, Crownfolio. Crownfolio said: The Empire Marketing board &#8211; lovely posters but a difficult question. And Volkswagens. <a href="http://bit.ly/9i2Akn" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/9i2Akn</a> [...]</p>
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